Rationalizing My Automotive Ignorance

[bjarvis]

I took my 2001 Honda Civic LX into the dealer yesterday for its 90,000 mile servicing. That particular visit was a little more expensive than I was anticipating.

90,000 mile servicing: $336.63
Replace missing bumper spoiler: $40.42
Replacement front brake pads and machine rotors: $334.46
Top engine cleaning: $135.71
Throttle plate cleaning: $75.65

Total: $942.40

On the one hand, the car has performed flawlessly since I purchased it years ago. Unlike my prior cars, this beast has never left me frustrated on the side of the road, calling AAA and praying a tow truck might arrive before I retire.

Still, I always leave a garage with the vague feeling that I've been had. I'm all too aware of my lack of mechanical knowledge and inability to know if "throttle plate cleaning" is a valid maintenance function or just code for ripping off a customer too ignorant to know he's being robbed. I suppose it's possible it's a perfectly reasonable operation but my nature is to be suspicious, even paranoid, when I know the conversation is sailing over my head.

I suppose I could remedy this a bit by doing my own research and educating myself on all things automotive. There are two barriers: I don't have a chance to research "throttle plate cleaning" once they already have my car on the lift in the garage and are awaiting my approval --and I'm sure that's part of their modus operandi.

Further, it's not economical for me to spend too much time on these things anyway. Based on my current salary, my time is worth about $50/hour: if I work 17 hours, I gross enough to cover this tab. Since I'm sure I'd need more than that to be even marginally knowledgeable about cars and engines, it's financially better for me embrace my ignorance, pay the tab and spend the time on revenue-generating tasks elsewhere.

So why do I still feel like I participated in my own mugging?

Comments

Nipped from the web

[g8rcub.livejournal.com]

This makes part of what you went through at least believable, however, I would like to know what they cleaned on top of the engine that cost so much...



(Snipped from the web):
I talked to my mechanic friend about the trick of cleaning the throttle body for better engine performance. He gave me an education about this topic.

The throttle body gets dirty from the engine gas recirculation. There is a small hose that sends post combustion gases into the intake, I think for emission reason. This post combustion gas dirties the throttle body and the rest of the intake manifold. So when you clean only the throttle body, you solve only part of the problem. He said the old fashion carburetor cleaners also cleans the throttle body, and the rest of the deposits on the intake manifold.

So we pumped most of a can of gumout carb cleaner into the intake manifold. I also filled the tank with 89 octane gas. I was cheap so I always used the 87 octane gas. The combination of the two did wonders. The car got 200 miles for half a tank of 89 octane gas. Previously, I would get 160-ish mile on half a tank. I can't say how much either contributed to this drastic increase in mileage.

I did not lead foot the car much with this tank. I was interested in finding how thing effected the mileage. The next tankful, I will lead foot things.

Moral of the story: a bottle of gumout carb cleaner cost $2.00, and it might save you the work of removing and cleaning the throttle body. When you send the carb cleaner into the air intake, maker certain the little red straw is firmly attached. Mine shot into the intake. luckily, it was caught by throttle body.

[quirkstreet.livejournal.com]

Among other things, my recollection is that Honda parts tended to be on the expensive side. Correct that vague impression for the fact that I haven't owned a Honda in over ten years.

[bigjohnsf.livejournal.com]

Top Engine Cleaning?

Did you query that item? $135 seems like a lot.

[bjarvis.livejournal.com]

The invoice says:
Clean carbon from intake manifold, combustion chambers and valves, $109.89 labor, $17.91 parts, $7.91 supplies.

[ciddyguy.livejournal.com]

Remember, some of what you are paying is for the hourly rate needed to pay the service techs. :-)

I used to own 2 Hondas, both 80's era ones at that, the second one the 88 Accord did have fuel injection and I never had any real issues with it until near the end when on rare occasions it'd act like it was not getting any gas or some such and would spin really fast when starting but would eventually rectify itself and start up and run fine.

The biggest thing that I know of is carbon build up of the valves but as long as one drove on the freeway from time to time, that was not so much the problem and while it's probably true that one needs to have the throttle body cleaned every now and then, the additives in the gas should help with this, even the 87 octane stuff.

[allanh.livejournal.com]

That's about what I paid for my 1991 Toyota Camry's 90K or 100K service interval ten years ago ... and Randy has since confirmed that the dealer in question rooked me royally.

Adjusting for inflation and rooking, what you paid today doesn't seem horribly unreasonable.

I could ask Randy, if you'd like...

[bjarvis.livejournal.com]

I could ask Randy, if you'd like...

It would only depress me, I'm sure. Still, it is more important to know the truth & deal with it than to hide from it.

If convenient, please do ask but don't let him spend any sort of time on the question: it's done & finished so there's little value in considering the issue too long. Thanks.

Randy's professional opinion ,,, well, you DID ask.

[allanh.livejournal.com]

I believe Randy suggested it was more a rape than mugging. I've been quite liberal with my cleaned-up transcription of his rather colorful comments.

Randy said:

"Once a car has gone out-of-warranty, I always make a point of taking it to any reputable repair shop OTHER than a manufacturer's dealer. Dealers tend to extort money from customers for routine service intervals. For instance I consider the throttle plate cleaning and the top engine cleaning to be a waste of money.

Suggest to Brian that he either read his Honda Civic manual to see what's required by the manufacturer - NOT the dealer! - and take that manual with him when he takes his car in for service.

If the dealer suggests anything that's not specifically listed in the manual, don't let them do it. Also make a point of reviewing the final bill and compare it to the manual's service interval requirement BEFORE paying, just to make certain they haven't slipped a little something extra in.

Most of the Japanese auto manufacturer now also provide service interval information on their websites."

[cuyahogarvr.livejournal.com]

Now you know how I feel when you sometimes cross that line into "computer-ease" or when my IT guys call me up and want me to do something for them as they walk me through god-knows-what on my pc.

*slapping forehead with palm - "Demons be gone!"

[bjarvis.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but I've never charged you for the gratuitous geekness. :-)

[cuyahogarvr.livejournal.com]

Okay, that's true........